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  • Jip I did. I dont want to transfer and risk contamination

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    • Originally posted by jannieverjaar View Post
      So there I was merrily adding my sugar to my bottles for priming and I thought. I just fermented under exact temp control and now I'm priming and then just setting them aside for 2 weeks in the 30+ heat to ferment.... this doesn't make sense. Won't the yeast produce off flavors from the sugar? Do you bottle condition at controlled temps?

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      I just did this exact test. Bottled a batch, left for 2 weeks at just above fermentation temp (fermented at 14°C, carbonated at 18°C) and then conditioned the two bottles differently. One was conditioned cold, in the fridge, at 2°C, and the other on top of the fridge, at around 24°C, for 10 weeks. I'm making a video of the results. Much bigger difference than I expected, to be honest.

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      • Originally posted by Toxxyc View Post
        I just did this exact test. Bottled a batch, left for 2 weeks at just above fermentation temp (fermented at 14°C, carbonated at 18°C) and then conditioned the two bottles differently. One was conditioned cold, in the fridge, at 2°C, and the other on top of the fridge, at around 24°C, for 10 weeks. I'm making a video of the results. Much bigger difference than I expected, to be honest.
        I think Jannie's concern is more 'bottle conditioning/ refermenting' immediately after priming and bottling rather than the 'maturing/ lagering/ aging' after that. (The stage where you had them at 18 deg]. I imagine it would be pretty similar though. I see another experiment coming....
        Cheers,
        Lang
        ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
        "Dudddde...Hold my beer!".... ; "I wonder what will happen if I ...."

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        • Originally posted by Langchop View Post
          I think Jannie's concern is more 'bottle conditioning/ refermenting' immediately after priming and bottling rather than the 'maturing/ lagering/ aging' after that. (The stage where you had them at 18 deg]. I imagine it would be pretty similar though. I see another experiment coming....
          Yep, I have a few plans in my next batch. Want to cold lager vs warm lager and also cold carb vs warm carb. Would love to see the differences!

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          • Originally posted by jannieverjaar View Post
            Yea that's what I ended up doing. But it opens up another question. During fermentation a temp change of 0.5 to 1c a day is recommended. But here I take it from cold crush at 0.5 to 20c in a day. Not good for the yeasties at all, so more issues then answers. But I didn't do a slow change in this case

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            Why is going from 0.5 to 20 C in 24hr to start carbonating your beer bad for the yeast? At this stage they need all the help (temp and food) that they can get in a low O2, high alc enviroment.

            The minimal amount of yeast in suspension and small amount of sugar will have a very small influence if any on the taste and quality of the beer.

            I bet its so small a influence that you would not be able to taste the difference in a blind triangle taste test.

            To put it into perspective in my batch size for a 1.048 beer there need to be about 132g sugar/litre to reach 1.048 , I carbonate with 7 g sugar/litre. Thats only a fraction op fermentables that you add to carbonate your beer.

            I would imagine that fluctuating temperatures during carbonating, conditioning and lagering will have a greater affect on the beer than raising the temp from cold crash to carbonating temp.

            ps. Lets not get confused carbonating and conditioning beer is done at room temp mostly and Lagering (also a form of conditioning) at low temp [emoji6]

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            Harhm
            Senior Member
            Last edited by Harhm; 14 October 2019, 09:37.
            2017 SANHC-Finals-German Pilsner.2019 Academy of Taste-1st Lager +1st Overall-German Leichtbier.2019 Free State Fermenters-1st Place-Australian Sparkling Ale.2019 SANHC-Final Round-German Leichtbier.2020 SANHC-Top 5-EishBock.2021 SANHC-Low Alcohol Cat: 2nd-2%Lager, Over All Cat: 2nd-Schwarzbier.2022 Free State Fermenters-1st-American light Lager.2022 Fools and Fans National Competition-Top 5-Dunkles Bock

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            • Well, since I do "beer-on-beer" my yeast goes from cold to warm regularly (and instantly) ...

              As the one beer gets kegged from a cold crush, the new warmer (room temp) wort is pitch right on-top of the cold trub/yeast in the fermenter and within ±4hrs sometimes the airlock starts to bubble ... so in my eyes (or is that ears) that doesn't sound like 'stressed' yeast.
              The Problem With The World Is That Everyone Is A Few Drinks Behind.!

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              • Originally posted by Harhm View Post
                Why is going from 0.5 to 20 C in 24hr to start carbonating your beer bad for the yeast? At this stage they need all the help (temp and food) that they can get in a low O2, high alc enviroment.

                The minimal amount of yeast in suspension and small amount of sugar will have a very small influence if any on the taste and quality of the beer.

                I bet its so small a influence that you would not be able to taste the difference in a blind triangle taste test.

                To put it into perspective in my batch size for a 1.048 beer there need to be about 132g sugar/litre to reach 1.048 , I carbonate with 7 g sugar/litre. Thats only a fraction op fermentables that you add to carbonate your beer.

                I would imagine that fluctuating temperatures during carbonating, conditioning and lagering will have a greater affect on the beer than raising the temp from cold crash to carbonating temp.

                ps. Lets not get confused carbonating and conditioning beer is done at room temp mostly and Lagering (also a form of conditioning) at low temp [emoji6]

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                This!

                But my Assumption was that I'm adding enough sugar to go from 3.8 to 4.1 that's almost a 10% increase so might be enough to perceive. But tbh. I could barely taste the hot vs. Cold lagering that toxyc found something more. We'll have to wait and see there.
                I probably wouldn't be able to taste a thing but my working theory is that 10 of these almost imperceptible flaws will turn a good beer into something you want to dump. And that's what I decided to test.
                I left 2 on top of the fridge. So we will see.
                Maybe I should call toxyc up in 2 weeks to get a better idea of the difference.

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                • LOL I'm no expert dude.

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                  • I was gifted a tube of liquid yeast that I want to try out. I know it will need a yeast starter but I have zero yeast starter type equipment. Are there any acceptable methods using common kitchen equipment, to make a decent yeast starter that anyone has had success with? TIA
                    Cheers,
                    Lang
                    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                    "Dudddde...Hold my beer!".... ; "I wonder what will happen if I ...."

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                    • Disclaimer: I know nothing about this topic.

                      But surely if your looking to make more yeast you give it wort. Not to high gravity no flavors if you can manage. Like using DME. And just shake it up nicely (O2) prevent other bugs from entering (sanitize and airlock). Keep it at its desired temp and there you have it.

                      Try and time it to 2 to 3 days before you want to pitch it into your beer? So you can pitch while it's at max activity.

                      Guaranteed this is an over simplification but I think it could work.

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                      • Use one of the wife's pots (with lid) ...

                        200g DME + 2L water

                        Boil for ±10min ... replace lid and cool. Once cooled, agitate with a whisk to air-rate and pitch yeast.

                        Then just let it sit ... every couple of hours as you walk past, lift the lid and agitate again with sanitized whisk. Should be good to pitch directly in 24-48 hrs, otherwise crash chill and decant most of the wort/beer before pitching the slurry at bottom.

                        No pro on this, but that's the route I would go
                        The Problem With The World Is That Everyone Is A Few Drinks Behind.!

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                        • I've made a starter before using a 750ml glass jar, the yeast, clean water, sugar and yeast nutrient. Dissolved the nutrient (Fermaid O) into boiling water in the sanitized jar, closed it up, let it cool down to room temp, added the sugar dissolved in some boiling water on the side, pitched the yeast and waited a day, shaking the jar as often as I got to it to get CO2 out and O2 in. Was this thick layer of yeast on the bottom that I'm still using today (harvested the colony for the second time the other day). Works like a charm.

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                          • Originally posted by Langchop View Post
                            I was gifted a tube of liquid yeast that I want to try out. I know it will need a yeast starter but I have zero yeast starter type equipment. Are there any acceptable methods using common kitchen equipment, to make a decent yeast starter that anyone has had success with? TIA
                            What kind of yeast are you propagating? Do you know the age of it? There's a few online calculators that can help estimate your target OG for the starter wort, this is based on yeast viability (age) and what kind of beer you're intending to make. As you know ale has a smaller pitch rate than lagers, 200g DME and 2L (boiled and cooled) water would give you an OG of around 1.040. Keep in mind propagating is an aerobic affair hence the stir plate or agitation.

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                            • Thanks for the inputs. So it sounds like I can get by without the fancy stuff for now.

                              I cant believe how much starter there needs to be? That's like 10% of beer volume, which must surely have a big impact on the recipe?

                              So its a liquid yeast about a month away from expiry and a lager yeast:
                              sdfsdf.jpg

                              I have yeast nutrient and DME so thats a win. Would the starter be done at the yeasts typical ferment temps or a bit higher? Also, would bubbling air through a container (via makeshift filter) do same thing as a stir plate or would there be some issue with that I am not thinking of?

                              Sorry I'm being a lazy ass and asking instead of researching, but most info out there is very stir plate focussed.
                              Cheers,
                              Lang
                              ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                              "Dudddde...Hold my beer!".... ; "I wonder what will happen if I ...."

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                              • Well, you're going to carefully toss most of the starter liquid, just keep a bit for homogenizing the yeast on the bottom (cold crash after propagating is a good thing). Temperature doesn't really matter, you're not fermenting I used to sanitize some tinfoil and lightly seal the flask, no need for an airlock. Personally wouldn't push oxygen through, risk of contamination, you can easily make a stir-plate, all you need is a quick youtube search, pretty easy too

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