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Fourth brew: Chocolate stout

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  • Fourth brew: Chocolate stout

    OK so I'm starting the planning on this brew, since I want to get it going in about 3 or 4 weeks' time. The inspiration for this brew is this specific stout: https://www.ratebeer.com/beer/birken...-stout/354622/ I actually see now for the first time that AtronSiege actually reviewed this beer a few years ago, so his input might be great here... :P

    The base for this brew is this, the Mangrove Jack's Dublin Dry Stout. It seems to cover the bases of what I'm looking for in this beer: Light chocolate and coffee notes with a decent body, good head and retention and a dry finish. I opened up the kit already and found that it has improved a bit over the years, and it seems to contain modern spray malts now, rather than just plan DME, and a proper packet of yeast. I've moved the yeast to the fridge to keep it as fresh as possible.

    Anyway, now the notes of this kit does seem close, but to me it seems to lack the chocolate of that Birkenhead Chocolate Stout, so I would like to improve on that. This kit seems to compare to a Guiness style stout, which is fine, but not what I'm after. As I've asked on the other threads as well, chocolate nibs seem to be the best choice here. I have no idea though how much to add in the 23l brew, since I don't want to overpower it. I've been wondering about how to add it as well, and I was thinking of boiling some chocolate nibs in normal water and adding that to the fermenter before pitching the yeast. In order to provide the fuller mouthfeel of this beer as well I was wondering - maybe add some additional components? Lactose for a fuller head and mouthfeel?

    Any thoughts/input on this? I want to know the ins and outs of a stout before I jump the gun on this one - I fell in love with that Birkenhead Chocolate Stout and would like to get closer to it, specially since it's selling for R50 per 500ml bottle in the local liquor store. I would love having a few bottles of this over winter!

  • #2
    WOW! Old ratings are fun to read. Also bear in mind that the recipe of the beer that I rated has probably changed.

    As the Birkenhead is supposed to be like a Guinness (both are dry stouts), I am not 100% sure what you are shooting for. Do you want more chocolate/sweetness (like Castle Milk Stout)? Read up on the Stout styles (https://www.bjcp.org/docs/2015_Guidelines_Beer.pdf) then I can maybe be of more assistance.

    Is there a very big reason for nibs and not just cocoa? Or just a malt that gives chocolate flavour (I think Weyermans Carafa Special 2 (Dehusked!))

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    • #3
      Serious question, why don't you move on to BIAB?

      Banana in a stout, not for me. Have to give it a try though, what the hell.
      "I’m Allergic to grass. Hey, it could be worse. I could be allergic to beer." – Greg Norman

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Bryan View Post
        Banana in a stout, not for me.
        I think that was a cross contamination from a weiss yeast. It is not supposed to be there, unless you make a banana stout.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by AtronSeige View Post
          WOW! Old ratings are fun to read. Also bear in mind that the recipe of the beer that I rated has probably changed.

          As the Birkenhead is supposed to be like a Guinness (both are dry stouts), I am not 100% sure what you are shooting for. Do you want more chocolate/sweetness (like Castle Milk Stout)? Read up on the Stout styles (https://www.bjcp.org/docs/2015_Guidelines_Beer.pdf) then I can maybe be of more assistance.

          Is there a very big reason for nibs and not just cocoa? Or just a malt that gives chocolate flavour (I think Weyermans Carafa Special 2 (Dehusked!))
          See this is what's confusing me here. I didn't find the Birkenhead like Guinness at all. Maybe I'm wrong here (granted I haven't had a Guinness in a while), but Guinness always seemed much "flatter" to me, with less body and "substance". I'll go stop by the liquor shop and get a can.

          Anyway, I suspect the recipe might have changed a bit now. Either that, or one of us is mistaking the taste of the Birkenhead today or the traditional Guinness. I would NOT like to aim for something like a Castle Milk Stout. I would honestly LOVE to match the modern Birkenhead Chocolate Stout just as I had it a few weeks ago. That beer has been stuck in the back of my head ever since and I simply can't shake that taste. I fell in love with it.

          Oh, and the biggest reason for nibs over cacao powder is because the nibs can be removed after the flavour is extracted. From what I can gather, cacao power (is it cacao or cocoa?) has to be dissolved and will remain in the solution. That's not a big problem for me, but since I prefer not clearing my beers these days (I don't mind the cloudiness and they clear by themselves in a bit anyway), I'm not sure what result that will have.

          Originally posted by Bryan View Post
          Serious question, why don't you move on to BIAB?

          Banana in a stout, not for me. Have to give it a try though, what the hell.
          There are a few reasons for me, for now, yes. First, BIAB takes a lot of time, where kit brewing is something I can now squeeze into my schedule. BIAB is also a larger expense upfront, since I'll need a ~30l boiling kettle, the price of which I've seen go for A LOT these days. Finally, kits take out a lot of guesswork for me. They're easy to make since the recipes are tried and trusted and you're pretty much guaranteed something good if you follow the instructions.

          I'll definitely look into BIAB in the future, though. It's an aim of mine, but not for right now. I only started brewing what, in January? I'll take my time, no need to rush it!

          PS: Test that stout. It's expensive, yes, but MAN it's good!

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by AtronSeige View Post
            I think that was a cross contamination from a weiss yeast. It is not supposed to be there, unless you make a banana stout.
            Or fermentation temperature issue?
            "I’m Allergic to grass. Hey, it could be worse. I could be allergic to beer." – Greg Norman

            Comment


            • #7
              Thanks Toxxyc, I see you are busy and shooting isn't cheap.

              I found the bug bit hard, sold my house, sold my car etc.
              "I’m Allergic to grass. Hey, it could be worse. I could be allergic to beer." – Greg Norman

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Toxxyc View Post
                Maybe I'm wrong here (granted I haven't had a Guinness in a while), but Guinness always seemed much "flatter" to me, with less body and "substance". I'll go stop by the liquor shop and get a can.
                Guinness is supposed to have a lighter body. It is a 4% beer that you can drink in large volumes. It is not supposed to be a full bodied sipping beer.

                Originally posted by Toxxyc View Post
                I would NOT like to aim for something like a Castle Milk Stout.
                Why would you not want a Castle Milk Stout? I am asking because you are talking about adding lactose, which is what is added to milk stout. It also gives me a different beer to compare your idea to.

                Originally posted by Toxxyc View Post
                Oh, and the biggest reason for nibs over cacao powder is because the nibs can be removed after the flavour is extracted. From what I can gather, cacao power (is it cacao or cocoa?) has to be dissolved and will remain in the solution. That's not a big problem for me, but since I prefer not clearing my beers these days (I don't mind the cloudiness and they clear by themselves in a bit anyway), I'm not sure what result that will have.
                When I brewed with cocoa it did not end up in my bottles (that I can remember). You may want to be careful on your first and last bottles, but if your bottling technique does not rouse the bed after you start, then you should be good. However, I cannot remember when I added the cocoa, I can check when I get home.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Bryan View Post
                  Thanks Toxxyc, I see you are busy and shooting isn't cheap.

                  I found the bug bit hard, sold my house, sold my car etc.
                  Ain't doing enough shooting these days either, to be honest. Had some drastic lifestyle changes recently and brewing (specifically kit brewing) is one of the few hobbies I can continue doing - time and cost wise.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by AtronSeige View Post
                    Guinness is supposed to have a lighter body. It is a 4% beer that you can drink in large volumes. It is not supposed to be a full bodied sipping beer.


                    Why would you not want a Castle Milk Stout? I am asking because you are talking about adding lactose, which is what is added to milk stout. It also gives me a different beer to compare your idea to.


                    When I brewed with cocoa it did not end up in my bottles (that I can remember). You may want to be careful on your first and last bottles, but if your bottling technique does not rouse the bed after you start, then you should be good. However, I cannot remember when I added the cocoa, I can check when I get home.
                    Not a big fan of the Castle Milk Stout. I don't know if you've tasted the Castle Chocolate Stout yet? That's also not what I'm after. The beer is too far into the "full body" range, and feels to me more like food than a drink. Almost like comparing a light lager to oatmeal, if you get my idea. I simply mentioned lactose since I know it adds some body and some sweetness without building up the ABV. I also don't want to end up with an 8% beer, to be honest... :P

                    I don't know how more to explain it here - and I think that's because the Birkenhead I tasted is possibly drastically different to the one you had 3 years ago. I did not get many of the notes you mention either, but when I read the commercial description of this beer, it's exactly what I'm after - and it's also exactly what the Dublin Dry Stout offers:

                    This is a seriously nutritious, flavourful and refreshing answer to the Irish Stout. It is a seasonal brew with dark promises, rich aromas, such as roast nuts, espresso coffee and a lingering chocolate aftertaste. One can also experience a hint of licorice.
                    I'm starting to suspect that I'm simply overthinking this and that the stock kit I have will be more than sufficient - but a hint of additional chocolate might not be a bad thing?

                    EDIT: The later reviews on that RateBeer page more hints to what I got - large head, chocolate mousse, bitterness of coffee and dark chocolate. THAT'S what I tasted. None of this banana crap

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I used low-fat, unsweetened cocoa powder. 250 g in boil at 5 minutes. Sludge will form in fermenter, it is ok. Ferment for at least 2 weeks to ensure extraction.

                      Side note: The beer was a hazelnut porter (Brewing Classic Styles, Zainascheff & Palmer), so there are some other sweet notes. I recommend lowering the cocoa to ~ 150g

                      Another side note: Have you contacted the brewery and asked them for a recipe or tips? You might be really surprised.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by AtronSeige View Post
                        I used low-fat, unsweetened cocoa powder. 250 g in boil at 5 minutes. Sludge will form in fermenter, it is ok. Ferment for at least 2 weeks to ensure extraction.

                        Side note: The beer was a hazelnut porter (Brewing Classic Styles, Zainascheff & Palmer), so there are some other sweet notes. I recommend lowering the cocoa to ~ 150g

                        Another side note: Have you contacted the brewery and asked them for a recipe or tips? You might be really surprised.

                        That could work, the thing with the cocoa powder. I have some at home in a tin (Nestle Cocoa Powder - and it seems that it is indeed fat-removed and unsweetened. Fermentation will definitely be two weeks at least, since I've learned with brews that patience is a great tool in the brewer's kit. Will also add the finings then as needed to ensure that most of the sediment drops out, and I'll cold crash the fermenter for a week as well. It worked tremendously well with previous brews of mine, including a mead, that ended up absolutely crystal clear even without adding fining agents or gelatin.

                        Regarding asking them for the recipe - I think I'll go ahead and do that. I don't see their Chocolate Stout on their website, but I'll send them an email. This weekend I'll also pop down to the liquor shop and see if I can find me some Birkenhead again, and I'll try compare it side-by-side to a Guinness and some other popular stouts I see. At the very least it's an excuse to have a few beers

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          For the Imperial Sweet Chocolate Stout I entered into Nationals last year, I soaked 80g of Cocoa Nibs in just enough Vodka to cover themfor about 10 days. i have to top up the vodka once or twice as they absorbed some of the liquid. (23L batch)

                          I then threw the nibs and the vodka into the fermenter once the fermentation was basically done. Left it there for a couple of weeks before cold crashing and kegging.

                          I have brewed non-imperial versions of his, and then I use 60g of Nibs and leave them in the fermenter for about a week. Chocolate is noticible but not overpowering.

                          During cold crashing, the Nibs sink to the bottom of the fermenter and end up as part of the yeast cake.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by NickR View Post
                            For the Imperial Sweet Chocolate Stout I entered into Nationals last year, I soaked 80g of Cocoa Nibs in just enough Vodka to cover themfor about 10 days. i have to top up the vodka once or twice as they absorbed some of the liquid. (23L batch)

                            I then threw the nibs and the vodka into the fermenter once the fermentation was basically done. Left it there for a couple of weeks before cold crashing and kegging.

                            I have brewed non-imperial versions of his, and then I use 60g of Nibs and leave them in the fermenter for about a week. Chocolate is noticible but not overpowering.

                            During cold crashing, the Nibs sink to the bottom of the fermenter and end up as part of the yeast cake.
                            This is the other method I have seen - soaking in vodka. I'm not a big fan of vodka but I somehow ended up with a bottle of Stolichnaya at my house, which is apparently not a bad vodka should I wish to use it. Not sure if you should then still toss the nibs into the fermenter though, since the vodka is supposed to both sanitize the nibs and extract all the flavour from it?

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Toxxyc View Post
                              Not sure if you should then still toss the nibs into the fermenter though, since the vodka is supposed to both sanitize the nibs and extract all the flavour from it?
                              If you feel that you have enough extraction/flavour in the vodka, then you do not have to dump in the nibs. Otherwise just dump it all in and let the yeast have something else to nibble on.

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