Vienna...ale?

[JIGSAW Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close JIGSAW]

Im sure you'll be very satisfied with the final result once carbonated.

On that note, doesn't 2nd fermentation in the bottle add ± 0.5% abv and not only a mere 0.05% as per your calcs ??

[Toxxyc Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Toxxyc]

I have an old school lab thermometer, the glass type as a backup, no batteries and darn accurate. Its rated to -2C to 360C. It's a cheap low tech solution for a low tech problem, you can leave it in the boil too if you want.

I do have a normal "candy thermometer" that ranges from 20°C to around 250°C if I remember correctly, but the measurements aren't accurate enough for my tastes. I like seeing on a screen for example, 68.3°C, and then I know, and I don't have to guess if the line ends somewhere between 65°C and 70°C what size that space is and is it 2°C or 3°C more, I dunno. I'm full of shit, I know :P

Thanks but no thanks I have enough of my own brewing issues that I need to sort out. Then again if you give me a mash temp target Ill gladly brew the same beer to see where I end up with it.

All things said you are doing ground breaking work by brewing around 2% abv, its a difficult range to brew at You did great going over to all grain and I'm very sure your beer will be 100%, well sure enough that my offer still stands that I will gladly look after 6 of them for a few months.

Heh, considering I only have 12 bottles, I'm going to be looking after them very well myself! It's a pretty malt-forward brew, so I've got an experiment planned with them. Langchop actually gave me the idea. I'll be "lagering" a bottle in my fermentation fridge for 2 months, and I'll also be storing an identical bottle in a cupboard in the pantry at room temp for 2 months. At 2 months I'll pull them both closer and do a side-by-side test.

Im sure you'll be very satisfied with the final result once carbonated.

On that note, doesn't 2nd fermentation in the bottle add ± 0.5% abv and not only a mere 0.05% as per your calcs ??

Yeah I'm pretty sure it'll be a good beer once carbed, I agree. On the ABV, I was always under the assumption that the carbonation drops add negligible amounts of alcohol, in the range of 0.1% ABV. I checked with a calculator and it seems like it's closer to 0.4% actually. That means my beer will be around the 2.2% ABV mark, which is still way under the 4.5% I hoped for before starting this, but it's not too bad. Eh.

[Toxxyc Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Toxxyc]

OK taking a look at the carbonating bottles, it seems there's more than enough yeast in the bottles to carbonate the beer. Gelatin didn't take out all of it (didn't expect it would, anyway). They're slower than what I'm used to, but they're still carbonating. Will give them three weeks and then I'm moving one bottle into the fridge for "lagering".

[Toxxyc Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Toxxyc]

OK let's do this post first, because I'm pretty excited about this. Last night I couldn't keep myself anymore and after 2 weeks in the bottle, I had to taste one. So I popped one in the fridge to cool down to nice and chilled (was around 6°C), and poured...



First thing that struck me was the head. For just 2 weeks at a relatively low carbonation temperature, this beer was well carbonated. Head was relatively creamy and quite thick. Clarity has taken a bit of a backseat and I think it's even less clear than when I bottled. That's fine though, because it still has some time to go. Regarding the sediment in the bottle - pretty solid on the bottom, and very, very little has settled out. Gelatin for a few weeks before bottling REALLY works. Definitely will be doing that again.

Anyway, the head subsided a bit after a few seconds, and I snapped another pic:



Again, that colour...

On the nose, you get hit hard with Vienna's nutty, earthy scent. It's on the money. I'm really glad I didn't go with more Vienna in this. The biscuity sweetness of the Caramunich also comes through well, but that's more in the taste and I THINK I'll turn it down slightly in the next batch. There is very little hops on the nose, as is expected, and I can compare the hop scent with a light lager like Castle Lite. I'm glad, because I was hoping it wouldn't be a too bitter beer, and I think with this amount I nailed it.

Taster... First thing that hit me was that this is a very "rich" beer. Flavour is full, and pretty sweet. You get a slightly dry-ish hit which is weird because of the sweetness, but I contribute that to the nutty/biscuity flavour. I think my mouth was playing tricks on me there. The bitterness is spot on. It's not missing like in some "beers" like Flying Fish, but it's not "in your face" like in other more hopped beers. It's just good. There, noticeable, and smooth. I like Admiral. I'll definitely use it again.

Mouthfeel is rich. Richer than I expected from a beer around the 2% ABV mark. I think it's because of the super high ending gravity (1.018), but I don't mind. It's not oily and doesn't "coat" your mouth, so I'm happy with that. The rich mouthfeel I think contributes to the "fullness" of the beer, and it really does feel "nutritional", to use a word often used in milk stouts.

The aftertaste is slightly bitter, and also sweet, and pretty nutty. It reminds me of fresh nuts, but not a specific nut. If I can describe it most closely, it tastes a bit like that brown "fins" in the shell of pecans, but not as dry or bitter. It's good. I really, really like this beer, and I can't wait to see how it ages out.

As a tester - I've taken two beers and marked them. One is stuck into the fridge at 6°C, and the other is placed on top of the fridge at room temp. In a few weeks/months I'll compare the two side by side, and we can see what difference cold lagering vs warm lagering will have. I'm excited to test it. I think 2 months will be a good time to give them, don't you think?

[Langchop Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Langchop]

It does look more-ish for sure. Also, if my history is anything to go by, that sweetness often seems to mellow out and age a beer well. I think you are going to love this even more in a couple of months (cos I know you are very patient)

As an aside, I think you should seriously consider doing the BJCP course one day and do some beer judging. Your assessments are top notch

[Toxxyc Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Toxxyc]

Yeah I was actually invited to the BJCP program by a brewery a while ago, but I simply didn't and don't have the time right now (baby birth times). Self-study would have been awesome, but alas. Later's story, that.

On the beer - the sweetness should subside. If it does, I expect it'll be very malty-forward with some clean Vienna flavour. S-23 might be harder yeast to work with for some, but man it created a clean beer for me here. I'll definitely play with it again. In fact, as soon as my mead leaves the fermenter, I think I'm brewing another beer with the same yeast cake harvested from the last batch. Got a good, solid 400ml yeast cake to work with. Just need to feed it sometime a bit...

Also, IPAs and hop forward beers are nice and lekker to brew and all that, but flippit there's satisfaction in brewing a good light beer like this. DAMN it's good!

[Harhm Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Harhm]

Well done Are you entering it here ? category 5a German Leichtbier, you only need to send 3 bottles.

[Toxxyc Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Toxxyc]

Well done Are you entering it here ? category 5a German Leichtbier, you only need to send 3 bottles.

Haha considering I only had 12 bottles, 1 is now empty and 2 are for testing the lager theory, I don't think so. Honestly I don't have the confidence to enter competitions yet. I'll get there, for sure, but not yet. When I do, I'll also make sure to mark them well and to get proper bottles I can ship well, not some big-ass green swingtops with leftover glue from the labels stuck to them still. Maybe some more 330ml normal brown glass bottles will be better for that. I'll get there. I'll get there...

[Harhm Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Harhm]

So what if you have 6 and a mini keg left, surely you can brew this beer again. You don't get judged on the bottles you send in, its the beer that counts.
I have entered and only have 1 beer left to compare with the judges notes. I've already kegged the next batch of the beer I entered this morning.

[Toxxyc Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Toxxyc]

Haha this is only my second grain brew, and only the second beer I'm really happy with so far. I really appreciate the push so far, but I'm not sure I'm at that level yet, really. Would definitely like to have a few brews under my belt first. Hell, this one didn't get where I wanted with the OG or the FG, and still has to age quite a bit if you ask me...

[jannieverjaar Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close jannieverjaar]

My approach would be to enter and hear the critique. You can only learn. And lose 3 beers. Maybe they mention 1 thing that takes 3 brews off your learning curve and you end up brewing great beers consistently sooner rather than later.

Sent from my SM-A750F using Tapatalk

[Toxxyc Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Toxxyc]

OK so how does one register? I see on the site (following links and stuff) registration is $30, and the entries R100 per beer. I'm not sure if that $30 is for us though? How's it work? Do I also then courier the beers to Bloemfontein? Won't that stir up the sediment badly and result in a cloudy homebrew on their tables?

[Harhm Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Harhm]

OK so how does one register? I see on the site (following links and stuff) registration is $30, and the entries R100 per beer. I'm not sure if that $30 is for us though? How's it work? Do I also then courier the beers to Bloemfontein? Won't that stir up the sediment badly and result in a cloudy homebrew on their tables?

see this page for info

Won't that stir up the sediment badly and result in a cloudy homebrew on their tables ? Yes, unless you have crashed and fined the beer properly just send your beer in as early as possible.
All competitions allow enough time for the beer to settle before judging. Get a score sheet and have a look at how your beer will be judged, appearance only accounts for 3 out of 50 possible points any way and your beer need to be really fubar to score a 1.

[Toxxyc Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Toxxyc]

OK so I didn't enter this beer. I don't want to and I'm not going to, not now. I'll do it in the future, perhaps. Anyway, on to the beer itself.

Last night I tested another. I couldn't help myself - sue me. It's been sitting at 20°C for most of the past 2 weeks and then I set the fridge to 2°C a few days ago to crash my mead. Poured with a much more controlled head than the first (seems "less" carbonated, but it's not). Nose is still pretty malty, nutty and biscuity from the Vienna and CaraMunich I guess.

On the taste - it's definitely crisping up. My "lager test" bottles are still going (haven't touched them) and I'll be comparing those two in a few weeks, but this one that's sat for the most part warm over the past two weeks is improving. Slower than I thought it would, but it's still improving. A lot of the punchy sweetness is disappearing, and the beer is taking on a more "commercial" taste to me. It's not lost it's flavour though - it's very in-your-face malty, with a strong punch of nutty, biscuity sweetness still there. There's a tiny, tiny little bit of dryness on the finish right on the tip of the tongue, and I can only attribute that to age. The Admiral hops is coming forward a tiny, tiny little bit with a tiny herbal note, which I'm not too impressed with, so I won't be using it in the next batch. I'll also dial down the hops a tiny little bit, maybe just around 5 IBUs less, then I'll hit what I want. I'll have to calculate this well with the next batch.

It's an easier drinker than when it was green. It tastes "fresher", so to speak, but way less green. I'll be replicating this beer for sure, but I'll double up on the ingredients so I get more out of it.

One thing I did note was that it wasn't very clear. I'm not sure why, but it definitely wasn't more clear than the one I tasted 2 weeks ago. In fact, it might have been even less clear. Sediment in the bottle was very, very little, same as in the first bottle, so it's not like I stirred it up (it was still in there after the pour, pretty solid from the gelatin), so I don't know why this happened. I think it might be a protein haze or chill haze due to the bad efficiency and attenuation of the yeast. I'll report back once I know more in a few weeks.

tl;dr: It's turning into a brilliant beer. Vienna/CaraMunich II is a winning combination. Will have to set two aside for Langchop in our next swop or I'm going to "lose" them all.

[Toxxyc Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Toxxyc]

After a few more weeks I opened another one last night. Got only a few left, and then have the mini keg still. This stuff is mellowing out so well it's not even funny. It's turning into a crisp, but still smooth and mellow beer. The green is gone now, and you get a strong punch of biscuit, nuts and even a hint of smokiness in the beer now. It's completely clear now, and head retention is phenomenal. I poured it into the glass last night, had a sip and went about my business. Getting back to the glass a few minutes later still saw a good cm of foam on top. Really, really great.

Going to replicate this recipe in the near future. I have no doubt I can make it as good or better again.