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Yeast propagation : Long term base solution storage

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  • #16
    Yeah I've figured I'll leave it for now. I have ramped up the temps a bit after pitching to "help it along", and I'll turn it down at the first signs of action again. It's now at 14°C. The heat wave is causing the fridge to run 24/7 now, hehe.

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    • #17
      Oxygenated the wort?
      Cheers,
      Lang
      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
      "Dudddde...Hold my beer!".... ; "I wonder what will happen if I ...."

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      • #18
        He didn't boil, so its not like he boiled off any oxygen from the wort.

        Secondly its Fermentis yeast which should be fine in these conditions.

        Im sure it will get there... you can even leave it till Thursday before making a decision.
        The Problem With The World Is That Everyone Is A Few Drinks Behind.!

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        • #19
          Sorry my bad I didn't calculate the yeast viability for 90 days storage, just guessed that you will have 70% yeast viability after 3 months.

          In actual fact you lose 0.7% of your yeast viability per day 90 X 0.7% = 63% loss
          If you washed, crashed and decanted you will have close to 2 billion cells/ ml compacted yeast slurry.

          300 ml decanted X 2 billion/ml = 600 billion potential cells - 63%loss = you have 222 billion cells that's still alive.

          You need 540 Billion cells for 1.050 Lager @ 1.75 mil/ml/°Plato for a Lager therefore you only pitched about 40% of the needed viable cells.

          That said I would still leave it at 12C and let the yeast do its thing
          Harhm
          Senior Member
          Last edited by Harhm; 22 October 2019, 17:12.
          2017 SANHC-Finals-German Pilsner.2019 Academy of Taste-1st Lager +1st Overall-German Leichtbier.2019 Free State Fermenters-1st Place-Australian Sparkling Ale.2019 SANHC-Final Round-German Leichtbier.2020 SANHC-Top 5-EishBock.2021 SANHC-Low Alcohol Cat: 2nd-2%Lager, Over All Cat: 2nd-Schwarzbier.2022 Free State Fermenters-1st-American light Lager.2022 Fools and Fans National Competition-Top 5-Dunkles Bock

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Harhm View Post
            Sorry my bad I didn't calculate the yeast viability for 90 days storage, just guessed that you will have 70% yeast viability after 3 months.

            In actual fact you lose 0.7% of your yeast viability per day 90 X 0.7% = 63% loss
            If you washed, crashed and decanted you will have close to 2 billion cells/ ml compacted yeast slurry.

            300 ml decanted X 2 billion/ml = 600 billion potential cells - 63%loss = you have 222 billion cells that's still alive.

            You need 540 Billion cells for 1.050 Lager @ 1.75 mil/ml/°Plato for a Lager therefore you only pitched about 40% of the needed viable cells.

            That said I would still leave it at 12C and let the yeast do its thing
            Dude this is awesome. All this info is out there but you have to read so many places an then there are conflicting numbers and all that, thanks for bringing it all together and making it simple!

            Sent from my SM-A750F using Tapatalk

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            • #21
              No problem. I use Beersmith for everything brewing but for yeast I have been using the Brewersfriend yeast calculator exclusively with great success.

              Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk
              2017 SANHC-Finals-German Pilsner.2019 Academy of Taste-1st Lager +1st Overall-German Leichtbier.2019 Free State Fermenters-1st Place-Australian Sparkling Ale.2019 SANHC-Final Round-German Leichtbier.2020 SANHC-Top 5-EishBock.2021 SANHC-Low Alcohol Cat: 2nd-2%Lager, Over All Cat: 2nd-Schwarzbier.2022 Free State Fermenters-1st-American light Lager.2022 Fools and Fans National Competition-Top 5-Dunkles Bock

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Toxxyc View Post
                Yeah I've figured I'll leave it for now. I have ramped up the temps a bit after pitching to "help it along", and I'll turn it down at the first signs of action again. It's now at 14°C. The heat wave is causing the fridge to run 24/7 now, hehe.
                By ramping up the temp and then decreasing it again as soon as you get activity you are introducing a mid growth phase lag of yeast activity right at the stage when the flavour compounds are being produced. Then again its your beer go for it

                Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk
                Harhm
                Senior Member
                Last edited by Harhm; 23 October 2019, 05:39.
                2017 SANHC-Finals-German Pilsner.2019 Academy of Taste-1st Lager +1st Overall-German Leichtbier.2019 Free State Fermenters-1st Place-Australian Sparkling Ale.2019 SANHC-Final Round-German Leichtbier.2020 SANHC-Top 5-EishBock.2021 SANHC-Low Alcohol Cat: 2nd-2%Lager, Over All Cat: 2nd-Schwarzbier.2022 Free State Fermenters-1st-American light Lager.2022 Fools and Fans National Competition-Top 5-Dunkles Bock

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                • #23
                  I slightly increased the temps right after pitching, so I didn't tamper with it in the meantime. I checked on it this morning again and saw a krauzen forming, with good smell from the airlock's moving bubbles. It's slow, but it's there, exactly how I want it, so I'm really happy with it right now. Bit of a sigh of relief, to be honest. Looks good, smells good. Got that rich biscuity nose again that I absolutely love.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by JIGSAW View Post
                    He didn't boil, so its not like he boiled off any oxygen from the wort.
                    I wouldn't compleeeeetely write this off as a factor in fermentation lag. My understanding from reading up is that most of your oxygen is gone by around 75 C (according to one article, though the below graph doesnt say this) and its not a case of it just 'boiling off' at boiling point? ie. a case of solubility, not volatility.

                    oxygen-solubility-water-2.png

                    Glad its going now Toxxyc. Im very interested in your final results here and your comparison to the boiled version.
                    Langchop
                    Senior Member
                    Last edited by Langchop; 23 October 2019, 10:34. Reason: graph
                    Cheers,
                    Lang
                    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                    "Dudddde...Hold my beer!".... ; "I wonder what will happen if I ...."

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                    • #25
                      Considering even the boiled one went totally wonky, I'm not going to draw a comparison between the two. I'll have to do a properly consistent brew and then perhaps split the batch if I want to test that. Sounds like a fun test, actually...

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Langchop View Post
                        I wouldn't compleeeeetely write this off as a factor in fermentation lag. My understanding from reading up is that most of your oxygen is gone by around 75 C (according to one article, though the below graph doesnt say this) and its not a case of it just 'boiling off' at boiling point? ie. a case of solubility, not volatility.
                        Noted.

                        I have to admit tho, ever since that article from Fermentis about their yeast being pitched dry and into wort without oxygenating, I don't do that anymore and I must say I cant tell a difference in lag-time between back when I did and now.

                        Remember I'm the "lets take a shortcut" type of brewer
                        JIGSAW
                        Senior Member
                        Last edited by JIGSAW; 23 October 2019, 17:48. Reason: Optional
                        The Problem With The World Is That Everyone Is A Few Drinks Behind.!

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by JIGSAW View Post
                          Noted.

                          I have to admit tho, ever since that article from Fermentis about their yeast being pitched dry and into wort without oxygenating, I don't do that anymore and I must say I cant tell a difference in lag-time between back when I did and now.

                          Remember I'm the "lets take a shortcut" type of brewer
                          I'm the same (shortcut, easy guy), but I have the opposite. I find my fermentations with rehydrated yeasts start significantly sooner, stronger and they finish faster. I wonder if it's yeast dependent?

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                          • #28
                            If there is one thing I continuously learn from literature and people's experiences here, is that few of the 'ultra critical' things we are taught (think oxygenating, rehydrating, trub separation, etc) are actually that catastrophically critical, except for sanitation (IMO), and most often at the very worst you will have a very average beer. I have often had little panics, but almost always, they resolve themselves with time.

                            [Yes my arms are up defensively, waiting to be lambasted for this statement!]

                            Even some crappy beers have turned into amazing beers after 2 years of bottle time.

                            Yeasty bugs are hardy and industrious little buggers
                            Langchop
                            Senior Member
                            Last edited by Langchop; 24 October 2019, 10:26.
                            Cheers,
                            Lang
                            ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                            "Dudddde...Hold my beer!".... ; "I wonder what will happen if I ...."

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by JIGSAW View Post
                              Noted.

                              I have to admit tho, ever since that article from Fermentis about their yeast being pitched dry and into wort without oxygenating, I don't do that anymore and I must say I cant tell a difference in lag-time between back when I did and now.

                              Remember I'm the "lets take a shortcut" type of brewer
                              Sorry to necro here but i wanted to add to the above. After watching a youtube vid below, I added/pitched a teaspoon of Kveik yeast slurry directly from the fridge(~4deg) @~28 deg yesterday and I had activity 2 hours later!
                              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-tkGAX5XSS0

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Langchop

                                Even some crappy beers have turned into amazing beers after 2 years of bottle time.
                                *****************
                                please clarify - you can bottle beer for two years ?????

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