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Hi,
Has anyone done the calculations on what the cost is to start a 1 or 2 bbl brewery/brewpub?
Has anyone done the calculations on what the cost is to start a 1 or 2 bbl brewery/brewpub?
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Do you want to be good or be praised - Epicurus
Do what you do to the best of your ability, and blessings will follow you -
Cost including premises and licences, or just equipment? -
including licenses and equipment.
Originally posted by Toxxyc View PostDo you want to be good or be praised - Epicurus
Do what you do to the best of your ability, and blessings will follow youComment
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You should include time as a cost. I think Jakes has been getting his stuff together for over a year
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This one is how long is a piece of string - I've seen that size on plastic equipment. If you are on a very small volume, on-prem kegs only at a BrewPub it will be much cheaper. (No comments on quality!)
One of our club members has a 90L system.Comment
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How long is a piece of string?
It depends on your technology, your infrastructure requirements, your pub seating size, your food/kitchen size, etc.
R250k minimum.Comment
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Thats not a horrible starting place.Originally posted by jakeslouw View PostDo you want to be good or be praised - Epicurus
Do what you do to the best of your ability, and blessings will follow youComment
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That's really basic stuff. Small 100L home build system, cheap wooden benches, small kitchen with basics such as a deep fryer, Cuban sandwich grill, small gas steak grill.Originally posted by Andreas View Post
If you want an automated system and better facilities, triple the number.Comment
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I was thinking R250k isn't a very big number. 100l is not a lot at all, considering a basic homebrew fermenter is 25l (1/4 of that).
Now my question - realistically, how "consistent" can you brew on a 100l system, considering batch-to-batch variation? I guess it's beneficial because you have less kegs you need to fill (5 kegs per batch), and if you go to 10 times that that would be 50 kegs, with their regulators and taps and CO2 tanks and and and, pushing up the price drastically, but does the price scale in a linear manner (which means it's worth it) or not?
Basically, would it cost twice as much to do twice the volume or is it like my pleb mind tells me - going two times bigger isn't necessarily two times the price?Comment
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Makes sense and falls into line with what I would like to do long term.
Smaller would probably suit me better than a big system.
Originally posted by jakeslouw View PostDo you want to be good or be praised - Epicurus
Do what you do to the best of your ability, and blessings will follow youComment
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1) look at the number of seats in the pubOriginally posted by Toxxyc View Post
2) work on a maximum of 2 pints per hour per seat
3) work out how many hours per day / week you will be open and how busy you will be
4) decide on how many taps/styles
5) estimate the number pints per style using the number of full seats per week
So basically you need to think of how many kegs you will sell per week, considering that you will usually brew around two days a week.
A 100 seat brewpub that is open 6 days a week will in all probability sell around 300-350 pints per week on average. That's 6 to 8 kegs considering you can't really fill a 30L keg to the brim, you need head space for CO2 just like a bottle. Some days, depending on the time of the month and area, might only mean 10-20 people per day and 2 pints each. Pay day weekends might mean full seats for a full day = 600 pints. So you have to get behind the demographics and the customer trends.
Say they have 4 beers on tap, and the best seller makes up 40% of the turnover, that means say a maximum of 2-3 kegs of that style per week.
So if you have a 100L system you can churn out 4 kegs per style per brew. You can easily brew twice a day, so you can brew all 4 styles in a weekend, or double up on your fast movers. You have to walk the fine line between Just Enough and Too much.
Too Much implies beers lying in a cold room and getting old, which doesn't go down well with all styles.
As for efficiency between 100L and a 200L: no, costs stay pretty much linear up until I reckon 500L which are all considered nano brews. Your economy of scale then changes when going towards the micro brewing as you can reliably start harvesting yeast because you have money for a lab, and buy bulk hops, yeast (by the KG) and malt by the 1 ton pallet.
Yes, I'd probably err slightly on the Bigger is Better side, and then brew half batches: it's easier and faster to ramp up to full capacity if needed. But it comes down to your startup capital and how efficient a system is when brewing half batches. Lots of commercial breweries have half size mash tuns and kettles and do a double pitch into the full size fermenters. This means doing a batch, pitching yeast, and then another batch into the same fermenter straight afterwards.
So they will have a 1000L kettle and 2000L jacketed fermenters. The fermenter doesn't care, nor does the wort or the yeast. And pitching more wort within 4 hours has very little effect on yeast propagation during the lag phase.Comment
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What would you suggest is a good size system to start with?
In the area I am, I doubt one would fill a 50 seat pub at one sitting. The current pub that is bankrupt or will be when the lockdown is finished (management and corona being the causes) only seats 30.Do you want to be good or be praised - Epicurus
Do what you do to the best of your ability, and blessings will follow youComment
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Awesome breakdown Jakes. It's clear you have properly thought this trough. I hope your and Andreas' pubs work out. Clearly the passion is not in short supply
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Yeah great breakdown. It's obvious you've gone and went the "good" way. I'm wondering though, how possible is it to brew consistently quality beers using simple homebrew equipment? Beers you could sell? Not talking volume here, talking purely consistent quality, keeping in mind plenty of people have no idea what a quality beer is, and they think Lion is the best shit ever just because it's hella cheap.Comment
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the best size is one you are comfortable with and can afford.............Originally posted by Andreas View Post
30 seats : depends on the rent, which is one thing I skipped because I own my premises.
30 seats filled daily from 17h00 - 22h00 = 300 pints maximum
Profit on a pint after excise and brewing costs = around R15 depending on style and ingredients
That's R4500 per day MAXIMUM.
Let's say open 25 days a month = R112,500 per month earning before rent, electricity, water, labour, cleaning materials and all the other costs AND you still need to pay yourself a salary.
So now you have your maximum profit. Rent depends on the area and the demand. You'll have to go and ask the current owners what they pay for municipal services and products.
But let's be realistic. We're coming out of COVID-19, most people won't have disposable income, and if they do, they want the most bang for the buck. You're up against a 6-pack from SAB @ R10 per pint of Lion Lager.
So you'll need to make sure :
- you brew a cheap beer
- it's what people want to drink
- you sell it at an attractive price point
- you need to make the venue an attractive destination
- you probably won't get any real money for 6 months or maybe more while you build a reputation
So your system has almost nothing to do with it: the real question is can you sell enough?Comment
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