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  • #16
    The biggest difference to me when moving to all grain was that my beers immediately lost the extract flavour and started tasting "real", if you know what I mean. Even the first brew, the smell and the flavour of the beer, even the bottles the next morning, started tasting and smelling like commercial beers immediately, and that's what I found supremely satisfying. It's really true what they say - once you go AG, you never go back to kit and kilos. It's just not worth it. It's cheaper and better.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by groenspookasem View Post
      A bitter translates to English/British pale ale, I have no experience with NFP or their products. I understand that some kits come with hops and some are pre-hopped, but I could be entirely wrong. So if you're intending to make an american ipa based on your OP and link, it could potentially clash with whatever is thrown included in that kit? I cant seem to find any info - their web presence is pretty bad, looked at some of the recipes (if that's what they call it, dextrose, honey and tiny grain and hop bills all around) and it appears that they add SAB hops into their recipes. Yeah, that's a hard no from me on NFP
      Hi groenspookasem, yeah their online presence is almost non-existent. Definitely a shop that you have to go in and chat to the owner. Where did you see SAB hops in their recipes?
      At the moment they're the only LHBS that I have access to and it'll have to do for now. I'll see how it turns out and report back.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Toxxyc View Post
        I have never boiled a single kit I made. Literally just stuck the tin in hot water while I prepare everything for the "brew day" to get it a little more runny, and that's it. I then poured a kettle of hot (but not boiling) water into the fermenter, poured in the can's contents, rinsed out the can with hot water and then added the kilo bag of DME. This was all stirred up properly to dissolve everything, topped up with cold water and yeast pitched. Done.
        Yeah my hunch is that the heat was too high and I might have caramelized my LME and brought out that tin taste. Definitely will not be boiling LME again. I've seen that its quite safe to add DME into the boil, but LME only straight into the fermenter. I think I'll follow this like you and JIGSAW have both said next time.

        The biggest difference to me when moving to all grain was that my beers immediately lost the extract flavour and started tasting "real", if you know what I mean. Even the first brew, the smell and the flavour of the beer, even the bottles the next morning, started tasting and smelling like commercial beers immediately, and that's what I found supremely satisfying. It's really true what they say - once you go AG, you never go back to kit and kilos. It's just not worth it. It's cheaper and better.
        I can definitely see why everyone eventually makes the move to All grain. I had the privilege of sitting in for two brew days with AtronSeige a year or two ago, and it really opened my eyes to just how amazing everything can taste and smell. As well as exactly how much cleaning goes into the process .

        I think I'm going to try a partial mash with my IPA and my Ale to really bring out the taste that I want. Really don't want another 23 litres of twangy beer.

        Do you mind if I pick your brain on my grain selection? I'm really going into this with only my own research and reading up, and this will be the first time I use actual grains haha.

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        • #19
          https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink/top...ink_source=app

          I hope the link works. I had the same issue and the forum helped me come up with a great beer.

          Sent from my SM-A750F using Tapatalk

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          • #20
            Originally posted by jannieverjaar View Post
            https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink/top...ink_source=app

            I hope the link works. I had the same issue and the forum helped me come up with a great beer.

            Sent from my SM-A750F using Tapatalk
            Thanks jannie!

            Just read through the whole thing. That accidental pale ale came out really clean. Looks delicious. I was actually thinking of something fairly similar for my Ale kit, but I'm shooting for a more malty Red ale.
            Considering using 1kg Vienna Malt and 200g Melanoidin for the NFP Ale kit (with some DME and Brew Enhancer as well) a Safale US-05, and 20g Fuggles hops.
            And then 1kg of Pale Malt and 200g Crystal Wheat malt for the NFP Bitter kit with the same extras and yeast as above, but heavily hopped with 50g Galaxy, 50g Citra and 30g Fuggles left over from the ale.

            Am I overdoing it a bit or does this all sound good? I used Brewer's Friend when considering the recipes and it seems like it should all work out, but this will only be my third and fourth brew so I might be completely wrong.

            I also only have a 5.5L SS pot, so It'll be interesting to see if I can get 1.2kg of malt in there comfortably.

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            • #21
              Those hops, do you intend on boiling them or just use them as dry hops? 5.5l is fine for mashing 1.2kg of grain. You're going to use around 2.5 to 3l of water to mash it, and you can sparge it comfortably as it's a small amount.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Toxxyc View Post
                Those hops, do you intend on boiling them or just use them as dry hops? 5.5l is fine for mashing 1.2kg of grain. You're going to use around 2.5 to 3l of water to mash it, and you can sparge it comfortably as it's a small amount.
                Both recipes that I'm basing mine off of add the hops at flameout and let it sit for 15-20 minutes before transferring to the fermenter. The IPA I intend to Dry hop with half the Galaxy and half the Citra.
                Should I be adding any in the boil instead?

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by HoboSpit View Post
                  Hi groenspookasem, yeah their online presence is almost non-existent. Definitely a shop that you have to go in and chat to the owner. Where did you see SAB hops in their recipes?
                  At the moment they're the only LHBS that I have access to and it'll have to do for now. I'll see how it turns out and report back.
                  I checked a few recipes and saw "Southern Brewer" which I've never heard of, I have never brewed with any South African hop either, but googled it nonetheless.

                  "Parent of Southern Promise, Southern Brewer was developed in the early 1970’s after the primary South African hops variety at the time, Golden Cluster, was devastated by black root rot. It is the result of an open pollinated cross of Fuggle.

                  Southern Brewer is used primarily for bittering and is not considered to be particularly distinguished in either aroma or flavor."

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by groenspookasem View Post
                    I checked a few recipes and saw "Southern Brewer" which I've never heard of, I have never brewed with any South African hop either, but googled it nonetheless.

                    "Parent of Southern Promise, Southern Brewer was developed in the early 1970’s after the primary South African hops variety at the time, Golden Cluster, was devastated by black root rot. It is the result of an open pollinated cross of Fuggle.

                    Southern Brewer is used primarily for bittering and is not considered to be particularly distinguished in either aroma or flavor."
                    Interesting, I didn't know that. I don't think they have updated their website since 2018 (going off the pricelist), and the rest of the website probably even longer.
                    So I wonder if these are still recipes that they vouch for.

                    When we're down to a lockdown level where most normal business is allowed to continue over counter, I'll chat to them and find out what goes into their extract kits.

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                    • #25
                      You're learning at one hell of a pace here. One thing though. Galaxy, citra and fuggle is a hella strange hop combo. Citrus and spice?
                      I'd go galaxy. Citra and ella. ( btw. Ela is hugely underrated) or just 2 of the 3.
                      I have a citra ella pale that if done just right tastes like lichi.

                      The bitter with the SA hop. You could just use Southern passion and XJA (keep it local). Makes a really tasty combo. But dont dry hop for more then 3 days or it gets grassy.

                      Sent from my SM-A750F using Tapatalk

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by jannieverjaar View Post
                        You're learning at one hell of a pace here. One thing though. Galaxy, citra and fuggle is a hella strange hop combo. Citrus and spice?
                        I'd go galaxy. Citra and ella. ( btw. Ela is hugely underrated) or just 2 of the 3.
                        I have a citra ella pale that if done just right tastes like lichi.

                        The bitter with the SA hop. You could just use Southern passion and XJA (keep it local). Makes a really tasty combo. But dont dry hop for more then 3 days or it gets grassy.

                        Sent from my SM-A750F using Tapatalk
                        I tend to be excessive when I start to enjoy something . I didn't actually know Fuggle was spicy. All the hop charts I've been looking at had it listed as "Mild, pleasant, earthy and fruity". So I thought it might work in both my brews and save me a bit of cash at the same time. Ella does sound nice though! I will definitely look into it a bit more then.

                        I didn't actually think of looking at any SA hops. I'll definitely keep it in mind when planning more brews in the future.
                        Is there a list of good SA hops that work well together?

                        When adding hops at flameout, do you get anything more out of them by pouring the full wort into the fermenter? Or is it always best to strain the hops out before adding it in to reduce the trub?

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                        • #27
                          Always strain hops if you can. Some can really go grassy if it's in to long. I use a little voile bag. So it steaps like tea and then remove. I also know a guy that says whirlpool addition is wasteful. So after his 10 min steep he puts it aside. Waits for the wort to cool and adds it back in as an early dry hop.

                          Sent from my SM-A750F using Tapatalk

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                          • #28
                            I've recently done a juicy/hazy pale ale with a total of 150g (50g Chinook & 100g Cascade) addition at 5min. I want to get rid of hops, I have too much. The hop spider and false bottom sorted the clog issue, I stirred the spider almost constantly. Respectable 25 IBU and 0.55 bu:gu with nary a bittering hop in sight. Tastes great. I'll do this until I've gotten rid of my American hops. Will have more english, german and nz hops in stock

                            I digress, a hopsider or bag helps a treat to not isomerize all those alpha acids.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by jannieverjaar View Post
                              Always strain hops if you can. Some can really go grassy if it's in to long. I use a little voile bag. So it steaps like tea and then remove. I also know a guy that says whirlpool addition is wasteful. So after his 10 min steep he puts it aside. Waits for the wort to cool and adds it back in as an early dry hop.

                              Sent from my SM-A750F using Tapatalk
                              Wouldn't adding the hops back in as an early dry hop be the same as no straining it out when adding it to the fermenter (creating the grasst taste you mention)? Or would 'early' be a couple of days later?

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                              • #30
                                I should strain my hops, but I never do. I prefer to add my hops straight to the boil (no bag). I've never seen a commercial brewery using bags or hop-spiders in the boil.

                                From there it goes with wort and all into the No-chill cube where it settles nicely at the bottom, but going from cube to fermenter some does make it into the FV but Im ok with that.

                                Then, since I do "beer-on-beer" it also makes it into the next brew when I pour fresh wort on the old yeast .... touch wood, it all worked out well for me and so far with no weird grassy notes detected.


                                PS:Like I've also said many times before, I'M the one drinking my brews so IM happy with every procedure I follow ... If I was brewing for someone else, I might change a few things
                                The Problem With The World Is That Everyone Is A Few Drinks Behind.!

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