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Toxxyc's Aim For Spotless Fermentation

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  • #76
    I typically use it, yes, but I didn't have for this batch. I've made unfined beers though using different yeasts and they tend to drop clear waaaaay faster, specially in the keezer.

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    • #77
      OK so my Irish Red with Lutra is kegged and fined with gelatin, this morning quickly before work. Cleaned and sanitized the keg last night, and this morning siphoned the IRA from the fermenter into the keg. Added finings, although I'm not sure it's even needed. The higher mash temp worked, but man this Lutra is a beast. It still ate the wort down to 1.010 even at the 69°C mash temp (shows 1.008 in the pic, temp corrected to 1.010).

      So first, a picture. Colour is this time SPOT on, right on the money.



      Now, notes. Bitterness is increased from the last batch, as this time I pitched the hops directly into the kettle (no hop bag) and it made a WORLD of a difference. It's increased, but not too much, and I think right on the money. This time I did a few things different. I pitched hops directly into the wort, as mentioned, but this time I also added Irish Moss into the last 15 minutes of the boil. Lastly, I let the wort cool down in the kettle overnight, just sealed the lid with masking tape to prevent nasties getting in and the next morning I poured it directly into the fermenter.

      The result is CRYSTAL clear wort into the fermenter, and it shows, IMO. I then pitched a packet of Lutra (dry, directly onto wort) after aerating the wort a bit with a sanitized whisk on a drill. I did this as the yeast is actually supposed to be for a 5 gallon batch (so 19 litres) but it was 30l of wort at 1.048, so a bit stronger as well (actually RIGHT on the 5% ABV mark).

      Now, onto the yeast, which is what this is all about. This is the first time I'm using a Kveik where I don't pick up a "rotten" smell in the fermenter right after removing the beer from the yeast cake. The very, very first time. The smell in the fermenter (keeping in mind it's at 28°C) was strongly yeasty, slightly sour (CO2 playing a role here as well) and very, very "beery". The smell actually reminded me of a bottle of Windhoek that stood overnight, went flat and warmed up, but sweeter. There is NO off smells from the fermentation or yeast at all, and I firmly believe it's because I just let it sit under airlock for a full 2 weeks (and a day, but who's counting). I believe this gave the yeast enough time to properly clean up, and I love it.

      Then, the taste. I took a sip from the tube after taking the hydrometer reading, and I was incredibly surprised. This beer is CLEAN. There's no bready or yeasty notes, with no sourness to be had. Again, this is the first time I'm using a Kveik and it does not present with the typical "Kveik taste" that I've picked up with even Oslo as well (granted, pitching more Oslo fixed this to a great extent). I did ferment this at 5°C lower than what is recommended for "fast fermentation" for Lutra, with the packet stating up to 32°C but I kept the fermenter at 27°C for the entire time. Again, it's clear that 2 weeks in the fermenter helped the yeast clean up very well. VERY well.

      Now, I have to state that it's not absolutely perfect, but that might be due to the warm, flat sample I tasted. Similar to the Oslo, but very very much reduced, there's still a slightly dry bite in the end of the sample I tasted that I've picked up with both Oslo and Voss, but also in other ale yeasts as well (specifically when overpitching S04). I don't see this as a problem at all though, and it always ages out pretty well.

      Overall, I'm SUPER impressed with Lutra. It's pricey, true, but still cheaper than buying two or three packs of true Lager yeast, and you don't have to ferment it for 3 weeks at 10°C to keep it clean. Yes, it's not a lager and there's a crispness that's also missing, but it's a damn nice ale that comes from the other end.

      Finally, this test also showed me something else. Even if it's Kveik, and even though it ate through all the sugar in the wort in less than 2 days, it still needs the time. It's a yeast, and it ferments with flaws, always. It doesn't clean up faster than other yeasts either, so to me, for the time being anyway, the "super fast fermentation" thing is a gimmick. It's a pretty cool gimmick, but it's a gimmick nonetheless.

      Will I use Kveik in the future? Yeah, I'm sure I will, specifically Lutra. Voss has got no chance. Oslo, possibly, if I can get it in dry packs. So far, I haven't been able to, so it's a no from me. Lutra comes dry, stores well and works, apparently, pretty well, so far at least. We'll see how it goes when it's carbonated and conditioned a bit. I've got this beer entered into a competition (with BJCP judges as well) on the 4th of December, so we'll see how it goes there. I'll definitely pull a sample this coming weekend though. It's currently set-and-forget carbonating at 12 PSI, and I'm hoping to pull most yeast from the keg before the competition.

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      • #78
        Nice update. Waiting to see how it does in that comp ....

        I take it you're not telling them it was fermented with Lutra ... would be nice to see if they can guess the yeast.
        The Problem With The World Is That Everyone Is A Few Drinks Behind.!

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        • #79
          I typically let people know if they ask, but otherwise I keep quiet. Would be cool to hear the judges' feedback. What's nice about the judges there is that they judge early morning, and then sit around with the rest of us for a while so we can discuss the beers, scores and feedback from them in detail. Previous batch's feedback was purely "needs more body, mash higher" so I did mostly that, but also tweaked one or two other ingredients.

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          • #80
            Nice feedback. Holding thumbs for on the 4th..

            Somme making me lust to brew an Irish Red too .. not brewed this before.

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            • #81
              Originally posted by AlexBrew View Post
              Nice feedback. Holding thumbs for on the 4th..

              Somme making me lust to brew an Irish Red too .. not brewed this before.
              For such a simple recipe, it's quite hard to get perfect it's such a subtle beer and if one part is out of balance it throws the whole beer off.

              If i'm ever happy with my IRA recipe I will invest in a nitro setup so that I can have some Kilkenny on tap.

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              • #82
                Yeah it's not the simplest of recipes, but because it's supposed to be a sweet beer that you brew with roasted barley, it's not easy to get right. I've made numerous batches now in an attempt to just balance the roasted barley with the other flavours, as while roasted barley and the flavours it brings (bitterness, roasted coffee flavours) is part of the flavour of the style, it's not my favourite. I prefer other flavours, and by accident almost did I find that I simply love the addition of rye malt in the recipe.

                In simplest of terms, you need to still mash high to get it sweet, but too sweet and the low IBUs will not be balanced. Also, you NEED the roasted barley for colour, but even if you add just 50g too much in a 30l batch, it'll taste like a stout more than an Irish Red. To boot, you need your hop and fermentation schedule on point, because an IRA with fruity flavours from either hops or yeast is not to style (as far as I know).

                So by now I know my recipe by heart, and once it's perfected, I wouldn't mind sharing it at all. The more the merrier, I like to say.

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                • #83
                  Awesome update! Love the detail. Now a curveball. VERDANT yeast! I think the complexity it brings wil make your recipe pop. I know its marketed as a neipa yeast and its said to throw fruity flavors. But to me it more closely resembles its English heritage. And that is where you're going with the recipe.

                  P.S. i might be biased. This is my new go to blonde, pale ale yeast. Its kicked 05 off ! Its just more expensive

                  Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

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                  • #84
                    Verdant is my new favourite as well. It may just become my house strain. I like the flavours it adds to my beers.

                    Its a dry form of london 3 so can be used in anything really

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                    • #85
                      Originally posted by Toxxyc View Post
                      I typically let people know if they ask, but otherwise I keep quiet. Would be cool to hear the judges' feedback. What's nice about the judges there is that they judge early morning, and then sit around with the rest of us for a while so we can discuss the beers, scores and feedback from them in detail. Previous batch's feedback was purely "needs more body, mash higher" so I did mostly that, but also tweaked one or two other ingredients.
                      Who this organizer of the competition on the 4th December, place ? Any info on the format? How to enter? How many certified judges will score your beer? Do you get score sheets back from the judges? How many beers normally entered ?
                      2017 SANHC-Finals-German Pilsner.2019 Academy of Taste-1st Lager +1st Overall-German Leichtbier.2019 Free State Fermenters-1st Place-Australian Sparkling Ale.2019 SANHC-Final Round-German Leichtbier.2020 SANHC-Top 5-EishBock.2021 SANHC-Low Alcohol Cat: 2nd-2%Lager, Over All Cat: 2nd-Schwarzbier.2022 Free State Fermenters-1st-American light Lager.2022 Fools and Fans National Competition-Top 5-Dunkles Bock

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                      • #86
                        Originally posted by Harhm View Post
                        Who this organizer of the competition on the 4th December, place ? Any info on the format? How to enter? How many certified judges will score your beer? Do you get score sheets back from the judges? How many beers normally entered ?
                        also interested to know

                        There aren't that many BJCPs and I know most in Gauteng personally.

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                        • #87
                          It's not an official BJCP competition. It's a local "get together" from brewers all over the area and then we have a brewing competition. The general winners are determined by the people who vote for us, but they get BJCP judges in just to give us feedback on our beers. We do get score sheets, yes. I have no idea how many beers are entered. This one is organized by Cactus Craft, and it'll be at NG church Valleisig, IIRC.

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                          • #88
                            Oh yes, onto the IRA. Beer is clean. WAY cleaner than the ferment with Oslo, and in a shorter time as well. I can't pick up fermantation flavours and it's also dropping clear pretty fast. Yes, it's with gelatin, but it was already clearer in the fermenter than the Oslo ever was. There's much less of that yeasty dryness and there's no sourish notes either. The beer itself - I'm guessing it's closer to the style guide, so I hope it'll score better with the judges, but I don't think I like it more than the previous recipe. This one has more roast barley, and mashed higher, and it shows. It's quite strongly flavoured, stronger than I like my Irish Reds to be, and it has an alcoholic bite because of the added 1% ABV above the previous one. Not bad, but it's there. Finally, because of the added roast barley to boost the colour, it finishes with a roasted barley note on the tip of my tongue. Which I don't like.

                            I guess we'll see how it mellows out over the next 2 weeks, and then what the judges think of it.

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                            • #89
                              My Last version took almost 2 months for the flavors to meld, before that I could taste the individual flavors, and you are right I had the roasted flavor right there as an after thought but clear as day.

                              I really think an IRA needs a bit of time post fermentation to rest and gather itself.

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                              • #90
                                Yeah my previous IRA also only had 6 weeks to comp day and by then it had mellowed beautifully. I hope the next two weeks will do the same to this one. It'll then be around 5 weeks since yeast pitch.

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