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To pasteurize or not?

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  • To pasteurize or not?

    Any cider brewers here?

    Looking at making a cider for my mate who is gluten intolerant. Having read a lot on brewing beer I don't want to take a chance with natural yeast when making cider. How do you guys pasteurize your apple juice?

    I thoroughly enjoy James Mitchell's gone fishing cider. Beautifully crisp and refreshing.


    Any pointers?

    Yeast?
    Apple varieties?

  • #2
    I've only done a cider once, so take this from where it comes.

    I used the cheapest apples I could find, which were quiet dry and slightly tart, which did end up in the final product. I cant remember what it was, only that it was a red variety. I think Golden Delicious might make some nice cider.

    I used a champagne yeast for fermentation.

    The easiest way to pasteurise would be to do what is called Batch Pasteurisation. Batch Pasteurisation is simply keeping the liquid above a certain temperature for 30 minutes. I think the temp is 68C, but it might be higher. A google search should be able to confirm.

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    • #3
      Cool. Thanks kincur.

      How did your cider turn out?

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      • #4
        I have made it a couple of times. The first was simply crushing a few apples in the apple season and tossing in some red wine yeast which I had from making red wine vinegar and left it for about a week. It was very dry and had no body - rather disappointing. My subsequent attempts have been with apple juice I get from a commercial producer, they sterilise it by heating it briefly to about 50 C I think they add Vit C to stop it going brown. I add Safale SO4 to this, something I read on the web by someone who had tested lots of different yeasts, see link below. I monitor it and stop the fermentation by cold crashing at about SG of ±1.020, usually in less that 2 days; you can drink it immediately. It gives a sweetish cider which I prefer, if you want is drier I would assume you would let if ferment further. It does not hold the sweetness even if stored in the fridge as the yeast seems to still continue to ferment it as I assume that is what 'dries' it as the sugar is consumed. My next batch I will keg and drop into hot water (50 C) to kill the yeast and ensure there is no further activity. If it is a disaster go to the health shop and buy unpasturised cider vinegar and add it to it, keep it open to let air in but make sure fruit flies can't get in. In a few months you will have a great cider vinegar. It is great for use with cooking.

        http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f32/resu...riments-83060/
        I spent 90% of my money on brewing and drinking beer and the other 10% I wasted

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        • #5
          Havent made a cider before but maybe campden tabs?

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          • #6
            Originally posted by skips192 View Post
            Cool. Thanks kincur.

            How did your cider turn out?
            It turned out okay. Not as sweet as I'd like it to be. It was very dry. The bottles got better the longer I left them. It was good enough for me to consider giving it another go.

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            • #7
              Pasturise it! If you don't you'll end up with highly explosive vinegar, and it's flippen easy, just google "stove top pasturisation cider" and there's a nice guide on (I think?) home brew talk, it works every time, when I do it now I use a plastic 500ml cool drink bottle as my tester, once it has firmed up I open it to check then ddrink it while I pasturise the batch, it's the only way (other than storing a whole batch in the fridge, and where would my wife keep all her expensive woolworths carrots if I have twenty quarts in the fridge?) that you can make a non dry cider with bubbles.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by kingcur View Post
                It turned out okay. Not as sweet as I'd like it to be. It was very dry. The bottles got better the longer I left them. It was good enough for me to consider giving it another go.
                I just had the same experience as well.

                I had a first attempt at a cider on 26th April this year. After a few weeks, I opened a bottle and found that it was like alcoholic apple juice and had almost zero carbonation.

                For whatever reason, I left the remaining six bottles in the man cave and on Monday, decided to put another two bottles in the fridge to chill down an apple juice. I was extremely surprised on Tuesday to find that it had carbonated in the meantime, and the cider was crisp and clear. It also tasted nothing like a Savannah or Hunters, and was very pleasant to drink. Even SWAMBO had a bottle too and enjoyed it.

                I didn't pasteurize the juice in the strictest sense of the word, but only heated my juice and adjuncts sufficiently to dissolve them into the juice, then cooled it down and pitched in a vial of Beerlab's Apple Cider Yeast, leaving it to ferment for a couple of weeks.

                I will certainly give this another go sometime, but I will change a few minor details like some of the adjuncts and definately leave it bottled for at least six months.
                Slainte Mhaith!!

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                • #9
                  I wouldn't bother pasturising pre fermentation, any wild yeasts will either be devoured by the commercial yeast you use or will add a bit of flavour, the whole point of pasturising cider is to stop fermentation so it must be done post carbonation, I batch prime at one teaspoon per quart dissolved in shop bought apple juice (tru fruit cloudy apple) as I said I also fill one cool drink bottle and use the original cap when it's firm enough, I pasturise on the stove top, works 100%, I also now always cold crash with gelatine for about a week before I prime and it clears much quicker, also gives you a second chance to back sweeten, which I also do with white sugar dissolved in the same apple juice.

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                  • #10
                    Thanks guys. Captain I'm not sure I clearly understand what you are saying. Pasteurize after fermentation sure. But after carbonation? How would you do that?


                    What apples do you use for a nice crisp cider? Not wild on Savanna/Hunters style of cider.

                    Lastly it seems that brewing cider is much easier than beer - hygiene is not a big issue like brewing beer.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by skips192 View Post
                      What apples do you use for a nice crisp cider? Not wild on Savanna/Hunters style of cider.

                      Lastly it seems that brewing cider is much easier than beer - hygiene is not a big issue like brewing beer.
                      I used the little red ones that you get in the 1kg bags in PnP...worked great, even though it was a lot of peeling and juicing.

                      Also, I would not treat the hygiene issues for a cider any less than I do for beer. It is not cheap to put a brew together, so why run the risk of having to throw the batch away because it has skunked due to bad hygiene?
                      Slainte Mhaith!!

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by skips192 View Post
                        Thanks guys. Captain I'm not sure I clearly understand what you are saying. Pasteurize after fermentation sure. But after carbonation? How would you do that?
                        this should work

                        Originally posted by Captain View Post
                        just google "stove top pasturisation cider" .
                        If you do it before carbonation you'll end up with flat cider unless you force carb
                        Primary: APA
                        Bottled: Quad, tripel, K@K red ale
                        Keg 1: Weiss. 2: Weiss. Keg 3: Air. Keg 4: Air
                        Next up: world domination

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                        • #13
                          Yes you pasturise AFTER carbonation, is very easy, the point of pasturising cider is to kill the yeast, if you don't you either have to keep it in fridge until you drink it, or drink very very dry very very bubbly vinager, just google 'stove top pasturise cider' you will find a sticky on an American forum. And yes you do have to be careful about hygiene but not stupid careful, firstly I see someone said something about peeling? I certainly don't peel anything, I freeze, defrost, then shaya my apples in a bucket with the cleanest brick I can find then I press, never had a infection. I also I saw someone say they buy 1kg bags from pnp??? Are you crazy, I buy from Indian wholesaler for around R40 a +-9kg box, don't use only one variety make sure it's a bit of a mix, the other thing I cleave learned is add a few pears (but not too many will never clear), they contain pectalose, which is apparently non fermebtable so you do get some residual sugar despite how far you let it go, it's not like beer, it's like wine if you leave it too long it will hit 0.099 and then your only hope is artificial sweetener.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Captain View Post
                            I freeze, defrost, then shaya my apples in a bucket with the cleanest brick I can find then I press, never had a infection.
                            Seriously? Please elaborate on your whole process. I have 2 packets of cider yeast that is getting old. I was planning to just add lactose to get the edge of the dryness, I'm afraid of the whole stove top thing
                            Primary: APA
                            Bottled: Quad, tripel, K@K red ale
                            Keg 1: Weiss. 2: Weiss. Keg 3: Air. Keg 4: Air
                            Next up: world domination

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Captain View Post
                              firstly I see someone said something about peeling? I certainly don't peel anything
                              Just kidding on the peeling, to see what the reaction would be. I core the apples then dump them into the wife's juicer, works great and tastes better than carrot juice.

                              Originally posted by Captain View Post
                              I also I saw someone say they buy 1kg bags from pnp??? Are you crazy, I buy from Indian wholesaler for around R40 a +-9kg box
                              Unfortunately, I don't have any Indian traders down this side of the world, otherwise I would certainly be looking in that direction. I have a fruit and veg shop around the corner...will try them next time, probably cheaper than PnP.
                              Slainte Mhaith!!

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