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  • Originally posted by PaBz0r View Post
    Weighed the grains for a Guinness Clone.. tad short on Roasted Barley, still well within where it needs to be. Not sure whether I should pull the trigger today or only brew it tomorrow...

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    • Originally posted by Chris S View Post
      Let us know how it comes out. I'm keen to do a lager soon.
      You say vials. You mean 3x 500ml bottles and 4th 500ml used to make another 2L starter to pitch?
      No, these vials are 28ml

      https://teknachemicals.co.za/product...mm+long+-+28ml

      I cold crash the 2litre starter and then only collect the settlement at the bottom.
      One vial is enough to create a new 2litre starter batch.

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      • Originally posted by JIGSAW View Post
        It's a 2L starter, but he only saves the yeast at the bottom into vials ... the beer on top gets dumped.
        Yip.

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        • Originally posted by Dewald Posthumus View Post
          Nah, don't worry about it, I use Munich Dark, and at 8.5 EBC, it's still within the specifications of a Pilsner or a Helles Lager in any case, you probably used Munich, so you'll be fine. If you used normal Munich it will bring the EBC down to 7.1, which is more in the middle of the style specs. Will turn out to be a lekker beer!
          I used Munich dark 17 SRM - the grainbill's total SRM is 3.7 - which is with spec - 7.4 EBC

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          • Originally posted by AlexBrew View Post
            No, these vials are 28ml

            https://teknachemicals.co.za/product...mm+long+-+28ml

            I cold crash the 2litre starter and then only collect the settlement at the bottom.
            One vial is enough to create a new 2litre starter batch.
            Are you able to jump up from 28ml to 2l?
            I just bought some 500ml jars and so would have preferred 250ml.
            Reference unknown but I can try and find it- 250ml should have 4B cells and to go 10 fold would require 1.25l which is only 40B cells

            I know very little about this though?

            Sent from my SM-A315F using Tapatalk

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            • Originally posted by johncoram89 View Post
              Are you able to jump up from 28ml to 2l?
              I just bought some 500ml jars and so would have preferred 250ml.
              Reference unknown but I can try and find it- 250ml should have 4B cells and to go 10 fold would require 1.25l which is only 40B cells

              I know very little about this though?

              Sent from my SM-A315F using Tapatalk
              You should only jump 10x, but can step multiple times. So go 28ml -> 280ml -> 2.8L etc etc. You can do just keep adding wort if you have a big enough container then you dont need to cold crash or throw away spent wort with yeast in it

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              • Originally posted by johncoram89 View Post
                Are you able to jump up from 28ml to 2l?
                I just bought some 500ml jars and so would have preferred 250ml.
                Reference unknown but I can try and find it- 250ml should have 4B cells and to go 10 fold would require 1.25l which is only 40B cells

                I know very little about this though?

                Sent from my SM-A315F using Tapatalk
                There's a lot of thumbsucking and assuming when calculating yeast starters. Different experiments from different sources show mixing results. e.g. 'they' say yeast slurry can have approx 1 billion cells of yeast per ml ... but could be as high as 5bn/ml. Now this right here is where the assumption starts.
                Dry yeast from Fermentis claim to have a min of 6 billion per gram. Test show that s04, US05 have approx 8bn .. other yeasts from Fermetis as high as 18bn (something like that).

                Here's some reading that I have found most usefull in my understanding:
                http://beersmith.com/blog/2010/12/14...g-beer-part-1/
                http://beersmith.com/blog/2011/01/10...g-beer-part-2/
                https://byo.com/article/pitching-rat...st-techniques/
                https://byo.com/resource/build-a-yeast-starter/

                What I have discovered from past failures is that you must do what works for you. The sooner the active fermentation starts the better. Pitching for pilsners/lagers at low temeratures requires the most yeast to get going. I guess If active fermentation starts within 24hrs you are good to go.
                AlexBrew
                Senior Member
                Last edited by AlexBrew; 22 May 2021, 17:54.

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                • Thanks for the feedback guys! Will look into it. My baseline knowledge on this is 0. My plan is to make 2lt starters, keep 500ml and pitch the rest. Will try keep the stored yeast for less than 3 months before re-building

                  Sent from my SM-A315F using Tapatalk

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                  • Originally posted by Jitters View Post
                    You should only jump 10x, but can step multiple times. So go 28ml -> 280ml -> 2.8L etc etc. You can do just keep adding wort if you have a big enough container then you dont need to cold crash or throw away spent wort with yeast in it
                    Interesting.. think I've discovered my fog about volumes when creating stepped starters. I've always wondered how these volumes worked, when say step 1 create a 1.3 litre starter and step 2 a 1.7 litre .. doh, of course you dump 1.1 litres from step 1. Light bulb moment. Thanks. Must be the Killer Hops's that are making me so clever .. haha

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                    • Originally posted by AlexBrew View Post
                      Interesting.. think I've discovered my fog about volumes when creating stepped starters. I've always wondered how these volumes worked, when say step 1 create a 1.3 litre starter and step 2 a 1.7 litre .. doh, of course you dump 1.1 litres from step 1. Light bulb moment. Thanks. Must be the Killer Hops's that are making me so clever .. haha
                      Lol broke my head as well. Just one last thing the last part to this is inoculation rate. Good calculators will show this but think of it like this. Yeast like plants need space to grow stepping from 1.3L to 1.7L is not going to give you the growth you are looking for.

                      There is a minimum space that yeast can occupy while still growing, there is alot of science involved I find it super intresting. My rule of thumb is to step atleast 1L to get the optimum inoculation rate or close enough for me!!

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                      • Originally posted by Jitters View Post
                        Lol broke my head as well. Just one last thing the last part to this is inoculation rate. Good calculators will show this but think of it like this. Yeast like plants need space to grow stepping from 1.3L to 1.7L is not going to give you the growth you are looking for.

                        There is a minimum space that yeast can occupy while still growing, there is alot of science involved I find it super intresting. My rule of thumb is to step atleast 1L to get the optimum inoculation rate or close enough for me!!

                        Great feedback. Will read up more about innoculation rates ..

                        I've been using this site for my calcs:
                        http://www.brewunited.com/yeast_calculator.php
                        AlexBrew
                        Senior Member
                        Last edited by AlexBrew; 23 May 2021, 20:01.

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                        • So, the Amber Ale is carbonated and I had a couple of pints over the weekend. Thought I would share my thoughts on the Ale, I did a completely different hop schedule than my usual.

                          First off, I ran out of gelatine and kegged without it, the beer is not 100% clear as I'm used to, it irritates me, so much so that I did not want to post a picture to Beer Pics thread...stupid I know, but hey, I'm used to crystal clear beers. Will post a pic later this week when I'm over it...

                          The hop schedule only started at 20 min (30 min boil), and I did not use any bittering additions as per usual, only Amarillo and Simcoe from 20 mins onwards. It resulted in a 28 IBU Amber Ale, with a relatively hoppy profile. I'm drinking a beer that I have never experienced before, the bittering is up front, with almost no bitter after taste, just malty goodness from the caramel/ biscuit malts. And I must say, I like it! The piney aroma from Simcoe really shines through on this ale, so much so, that I'm thinking of just brewing another batch this coming weekend and not even bothering with the Rye IPA. I dry hopped with the balance of the hops after the aroma additions, and although I like hoppy beers, it may need a bit less dry hopping, overall, I'm extremely chuffed with the result.

                          Here's the recipe, the FG finished at 1.012 and not 1.009 as per software.

                          Amber Ale.jpg

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                          • Originally posted by Dewald Posthumus View Post
                            <snip>

                            First off, I ran out of gelatine and kegged without it, the beer is not 100% clear as I'm used to, it irritates me, so much so that I did not want to post a picture to Beer Pics thread...stupid I know, but hey, I'm used to crystal clear beers. Will post a pic later this week when I'm over it...

                            <snip>
                            You could still add the gelatin ... mix as usual and add it to the keg with a syringe via the prv valve ...

                            release pressure on keg ...
                            unscrew prv (that's if you have one)
                            and inject liquid ....
                            this will introduce just about zero OČ
                            The Problem With The World Is That Everyone Is A Few Drinks Behind.!

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                            • I also have to post here. The IRA that I made that had the roasty bite is maturing REALLY well. The roast bite is fading and sweetness is picking up well. The beer is smoothing out and turning in a super easy drinking beer. That makes sense, since it's a 5.1% ABV sweet beer with (IIRC) 28 IBUs. It does really well.

                              Regarding the Competition Helles, that funny fruity bite is still there. I had the last bottled one last night and while it's really improving, it's not improving fast enough. The competition is in 3.5 weeks' time, and unless it really undergoes a drastic change in that time, I'm not sure it'll do well at all.

                              The beer hits all the right notes. The ABV is spot on. Colour is spot on. The aroma and flavour and IBU is spot on. It's overall a perfect beer - and then it tastes like a tiny bit of fruit, like mango perhaps, made it into the boil. And it sets it off completely.

                              The one I poured into the glass seems to have "improved" after a few minutes, so I'm starting to wonder if it's not maybe a yeast by-product that vents off with the CO2, so I'm going to keg this week 2 weeks before the competition, carbonate it heavily and then vent it well to ensure I get all off stuff out of there ASAP. I'm actually also considering adding some copper into the beer in the keg, so that if there's a note of sulphur (I can't rule it out, the fruitiness has a slight sulphury note to it if I think about it), it'll get drawn out with the copper.

                              I was quite excited about this beer for the comp, but right now it's taking more of a backseat. Something is slightly wrong with the beer, and I actually hoped that the judges won't have a major flaw to write down for me.

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                              • Best is to present it as is, and learn from it. You are trying to over-engineer a simple beer, trust what you made and roll with it. Like I've said before, you will never ever be 100% happy with what you present when somebody is else is marking your homework, so just go with it.

                                Dunno how else to articulate it, but go with it and try again, you are judging the beer before it's been judged.

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